Friday, July 29, 2011

Should the JCCV be wasting their time on this?

Why is the JCCV using its limited resources for an issue that is more than fully addressed by our local, state and federal governments? After all, concerns and problems that these individuals claim to have are the same for all - whether they are Jewish, Hindu or Rastafarians.

Not that we object to them getting all the help they need. To the contrary, some may even seek and find a ways to drop their abnormal, anti-Torah, queer lifestyle and join the mainstream 'normal' community.

 But why is the JCCV straining to seek a 'Jewish angle' on this? Don't they have enough issues to deal with? Have they checked with their membership and the community at large to gauge if this is something wanted by or even acceptable to the majority?

Or has John Searle finally capitulated to that miniscule and insignificant noisy bunch of homosexuals and their ad-nauseum-whimpering. If so, why not go a step further and resign his presidency and hand over the running of the Victorian Jewish community to Michael Barnett.

Such a step may even defer the whimpering for a week or two.
To paraphrase an earlier post on an associated matter, maybe the JCCV should call for submissions to investigate discrimination and vilification against members of the following "groups":

“Melbourne Jewish Idol-worshippers”
“Jewish Adulterers Society”
“Australian Jewish Chazir-fressers Club”
“The Shabbat-desecrators Association”
“Jews for Jesus”
“The Ladies Yom Kippur & Tisha B’av Lunchers Guild”
"Melbourne Jewish Car Thieves/Drunk-Drivers/Coke-sniffers"


  1. Whooo! You are gonna get it from the gays!
    (Not that i disagree with anything you wrote)

  2. Police stop donkey procession en route to J'lem gay parade

    As if it weren't enough that three separate protests converged on Jerusalem Thursday afternoon - the doctor's march, the tent protest, and the Gay pride parade - police stopped a procession of four donkeys and a few dozen extreme right-wing demonstrators at the entrance to the city.

    The demonstrators were attempting to get to the route of the annual Pride and Tolerance parade with the donkeys, to protest the "bestial" nature of homosexuality.

    So who will the JCCV side with? The gays or the donkeys?

  3. B'H
    I have got to agree with everything you say. I think being homosexual goes against the command to love one's neighbour as oneself which in effect calls on us to love ourselves first and through that we are able to love others but not in the perverse and abnormal fashion that homosexuals and child molesters and people who practise incest, espouse as 'an alternative family or lifestyle.' Just because someone else eats doggy doo and then tries to pretend that it is an 'alternative normal diet' doesn't mean the rest of us have to accept it as normal and acceptable.
    Yes the JCCV is wasting its time and limited funding. Why, because in this PC environment all values get turned on their heads. Sigh Shabbat Shalom!

  4. More shtuyot from our gay and lesbian comrades, who are desperately seeking recognition for their relationships -

    The JWire report quotes Roy Freeman, the new President of Dayenu and founder of J4ME (the Jewish Community supporting Marriage Equality) as saying: "While a small minority of Orthodox Jews continue to use the Torah as the basis for justifying their homophobic rhetoric, the vast majority of the Jewish community supports equal marriage rights same-sex couples."

    So if a minority continue to cling to a 3300+ tradition that they aver was given on Mount Sinai from God, then there's something wrong with that? All of a sudden, Mr Freeman - the gadol that he is - in the 21st century has decided that we should throw the Jewish belief that has kept us for thousands of years out of the window?

    As for the so-called "Progressive rabbis" who have written to the Australian government supporting same-sex marriage, they too appear to care little about Jewish tradition. Their "Judaism" is all about following the vagaries of the times. Being gay is "in", so let's rewrite the Torah. Wow, what a simple approach. No wonder their movement is on the decline worldwide and their adherents are intermarrying (or becoming gay!) like never before.

  5. Wait a minute. You're cool with people getting married in ceremonies which invoke the names of their idols, and secular marriages between Jews and non-Jews - both of which are 100% legal and recognised under Australian law. You've got nothing to say about those - why should this be different?

  6. Joe in Australia - what are you saying? That if Jews can intermarry under Australian law, or Hindus or Rastafarians or Pagans can marry legally, then so too gay couples should be allowed to marry legally?

    In case you have missed the crux of the argument propounded against gay "marriage", the issue is one of what marriage means in historic terms. The concept excludes formal recognition of man-man, woman-woman relationships. To acknowledge such relationships under the banner of "marriage" is a contradiction in terms.

    It has nothing to do with the invocation of idolatry in wedding ceremonies or the religion of the partners. It has to do with the definition of marriage and a desire to maintain the notion of a nuclear family which, despite all its drawbacks, has preserved the human race as best as possible since time immemorial.

  7. I'm saying that we cannot make secular law conform to halacha. I don't think we should even try. Look at the way that this issue has made you venerate the "nuclear family"; a recent construct that is incompatible with halacha and Jewish culture. Or do you think that Yaakov Avinu was doing something wrong when he married two wives?

  8. Geez Joe, why are you taking my words out of context and insinuating that I am out to make Australia a halachic state? Gay marriage is not (yet) the law and I and the like minded Torah-true Jews are perfectly entitled to protest the travesty being proposed by the ALP. Even a secular state is allowed to consider religious viewpoints in its development of legislation!

    As for your reference to Yaakov Avinu - again, you are purposely misconstruing my reference to the nuclear family. The avos reared children who had a mother and father. In the case of gay relationships, there is either two father figures or two mother figures, and the perversion inherent in homosexuality is passed on to the children.

  9. If you're not trying to make Australia an halachic state then why should you care how the government defines "marriage"? It won't affect what we call "chupa vekidushin".

    As for the nuclear family bit, it's not very long ago that Mormon and Islamic marriages were not recognised by English common law. Why? Because marriage was defined as the union of one man and one woman, for life. They did recognise Jewish marriages, probably because they had never noticed that Jewish men in certain situations can have more than one wife.

    Gay marriages are not primarily about kids, for obvious reasons. They're primarily about the legal status and regulation that comes with marriage and which provides a framework for insurance, inheritance, medical authority, and so forth. I don't have a problem with any of that.

    We don't have gay marriages today, but kids already live in homes with two male or two female parents - de facto parents if you prefer to call them that. The only effect of gay marriage in these situations will be to protect the children if their biological parent dies, or if the couple split up.

    Gay marriage is neither a threat to morals or something that will harm Jewish marriages. It will encourage people to regularise their relationship and it will help protect the interests of children and other vulnerable members of a relationship. As a religious issue it's irrelevant but as a social one it's a good idea and one which help people. There's no reason why the Jewish community should stand in its way.


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