Friday, February 19, 2010

Psak of 'Meshichist' Rabbis? Or mainstream Chabad view?

Forwarded by KLP:


  1. Wilshansky, Wolpo, Ginsburg.... this list of rabbis are a who's who of the meshichist leadership.

  2. So what does Chabad have more of?
    Meshichist rabbis or anti=Meshichist? What about here in Melbourne?
    What are the numbers?

    I understand that Sydney is almost totally meshichistish.
    A Chabad friend of mine said that he couldn't think of a single rabbi there who is anti.

  3. Chabad Watcher you are clueless.

    That petition is 13 out of hundreds and hundreds of Chabad Rabbis. It is a known and established fact that he vast majority of Chabad Rabbis and Shluchim, including all of the major Chabad Rabinic councils (US and Israel) are non meshichist / anti meshichist.

    In Sydney, it is well known that Braun is Mishichist and Feldman is anti. In Melbourne, Telsner and Chaim Tzvi Groner are meshichist and The rest of the Chabad Rabbis are known to be anti / non meshichist: (M.Gutnick, Barber, Keivman, F. Levin, Kluwgant, Krasinjanski, Glasman, Y. Gutnick, M. Liberow, etc.)

    Truth be said that both Melbourne and Sydney lack the very "vocal" brand of Anti meshichist, eg Shochet, Weinberg, Kaplan etc.
    But then again our rabbis are not really known to be too vocal about anything....

  4. The signatories are all prominent meshichist rabbonim. That is the whole point; such a proclamation from anti- or non-meshichist rabbonim would not have any impact on the target audience, which is those who might have a thought of straying from halacha ch"v, or of condoning those who do. But when these rabbonim and talmidei chachomim, who share their point of view on the moshiach issue, tell them to stop floating around in the air and get a whiff of reality, real Torah, real halacha, that should have the intended effect.

    The most important part of the proclamation is the second paragraph, beginning ברור ופשוט, which reminds us that despite everything we are still in golus, and therefore all the laws of golus still apply. The Rebbe's sichos of 5751-52 make the same point: it is inexplicable why, after all that has happened, we are still in golus, and yet we are. All we need to do to leave golus is to open our eyes and yet we seem incapable of doing that. The Rebbe was puzzled by why this should be so, but he openly acknowledged that it was so, and he continued to observe all the fasts, and to speak divrei kevushin on them, and that is where authentic meshichistn get their guidance.

    As for those of us who are not meshichists, and therefore never even thought of breaking fasts, we need to take a lesson too. First of all, leaving tachanun out is not just a meshichist thing. Too many of us find any excuse or none to miss a tachanun, and we need to be more careful with it. And we must also remember that however much we disagree with the meshichist position, there are great talmidei chachomim and rabbonim on that side, for whom we must have respect, so we have no right to rule it out of the spectrum of legitimate interpretations of Torah. It is within the 70 panim and the eilu va'eilu, and very much still part of halachic Judaism, with legitimate and respectable leaders who work to keep it so, as evidenced once again by this proclamation.

  5. Irrespective of their personal beliefs, the public proclamations have set their cause back, rather than advancing them. This is in direct contravention of the Rebbe's deep concerns about distancing Jews from Chabad Chassidus. No amount of rabbinic "poopahing" can or will change that immutable fact. Jews have been turned off, period!

  6. From New York:
    Greetings: This is a late posting, but perhaps of use.
    The "mesichism" is thoroughly ingrained within all the Chabad institutions. The only purging is on the outside, for overt promoting. For example, the principal of Machon Chana, R. Majesky, is one of the biggest promoters. He wrote booklets on Yechi, etc.
    Nowadays he just keeps it a little quiet, but has never taken it back.
    Perhaps we need to boycott such programs.
    By the way, it is worth reading Majesky's writing, just to know what this madness is based on. Here is one version:


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