I am not sure how many members of our community still read the Age, but those who did so yesterday would have been disturbed and appalled at Menachem Vorchheimer's latest attempt at self-promotion and notoriety.
His incessant public besmirching the Yeshiva leadership is bad enough and we are sick and tired of it. But this effort at bashing John Brumby, the premier of Victoria, who, besides being a decent, hard-working and honorable human being, is well-known to be a good friend of the Jewish community, is despicable.
(I am in no way taking sides here in the electoral battle between Mr Brumby and his equally decent opponent - Ted Ballieu. He too is, BH, a good friend of ours.
Victorian, and indeed Australian, Jewry is most fortunate to be in a situation where all leaders of the major parties are friends of ours and supportive of Israel.)
I sure hope that John Brumby ignores that pathetic blog of a wannabe rabble-rouser - who has absolutely no support or following in our community.
And to you Menachem, a request on behalf of all of us: Pull your head in!
Thank you Chabadnik for speaking on our behalf. Someone should forward this post to Lawrence Money.
ReplyDeleteHey Chabadnick, I can see a parity. I read Vorchheimer's blog about Brumby and have seen his statements re:Yeshivah - they both relate to open, honest and accountable leadership. I know Chabad has its roots under a Communist regime, but here in Australia we pride ourselves on democracy and free speech
ReplyDeleteI read the article in The Age and note that the issue appears to relate to Menachem Vorscheimer anger that the off duty police officer who was part of the group that assaulted him never got disciplined by Victoria Police and has recently been promoted. I think he has a right to be angery if they let him down. Our sages taught us not to so quick to judge.
ReplyDeleteDidn't the Vaad put out a letter warning against Loshon Hora. Isn't this blog in direct contradiction of the Vaad and Halacha...
ReplyDeleteChabadnik...I thought Menachem was a champion of law reform for bias crimes...perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye...only Hashem has the right to judge in the singular form (refer Shulchun Aruch; Pirkei Avos). Also note last weeks parsha and the words of Yitzchok in Fridays Chitas as eloborated in Rashi and the meforshim...careful
ReplyDeleteChabadnik only speak for yourself not for others... you are not the voice of the community... we are all allowed to have our own views and opinions.
ReplyDeleteJust in case anyone didn't catch on, 4 of the above comments have come from the same address..
ReplyDeleteChabadnik is 101% right. A bearded Jew with a yarmulke on his head should be the first to be grateful that he is living in a מלכות של חסד that allows him to live a religious life according to his wishes. הכרת הטוב is the way normal decent Jews act.
ReplyDeleteMenachem V was not the first nor the last Jew who was hurt by some drunken anti-Semitic hooligan. It unfortunately happens quite a lot and the police and govt do all they can to apprehend the perpetuators.
Stop behaving in such a petulant and childish manner. And yes, please pull your head in.
Unfortunately the publicity that The Age column has given MV is exactly what he craves. Pity.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't like Vorchheimer's personal attacks on Brumby, I am far more concerned about his statements about the yeshiva and its financial arrangements (which I don't have the slightest doubt are 100% glatt kosher).
ReplyDeleteSome of the stuff that he writes borders on mesirah which is one of the worst things a Jew can do to another.
My advice Menachem is, before you again put pen to paper, think hard and discuss it with a rav achasid and yere shamayim.
you can find a rav chasid, you may find a yere shamayim, but where can you find a rav achasid who is a yere shamayim?
ReplyDeleteB'H
ReplyDeleteI find it odd that my post which supported Menachem Vorchheimer's position was not published. Is this a form of covert censorship? Probably.
Unlike the owner of this blog who criticises him, Menachem Vorsheimer has the integrity and the courage to sign his real name. At least Mr. Vorsheimer doesn't hide behind anonymity and knock a man for standing up for his convictions.
ReplyDeleteIlana, we don't recall seeing such a comment from you. As a rule we will not allow comments that villify or get too personal.
ReplyDeleteChazal say 'havei mispaleil lishlomo shel malchus', we are meanto to pray for teh welfare of the government. Check that out Ms Silcove.
ReplyDeleteAttacking a malchus shel chesed - even if it isn't 100% perfect is anti-Torahdig.
Campaigning in a democratic election is not contradictory to praying for 'shlomo shel malchus'. 'Malchus' in a democracy refers to the institution of government, parliament, etc, not the ruling party.
ReplyDeleteMr V should use clean & respectful language to avoid a chilul Hashem.
Wgat V is doing is is far far fromr espectful. And because he has that beard and yarmulkeh and is always described as "Orthodox Jew" I would say that he is creating a chilul Hashem.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad that AJNWatch has publicly criticised him and hope that someone has forwarded this to the premier.
Unfortunately I don't think Mr V realizes that his language is creating a chillu Hashem.
ReplyDeleteThese days many people in the community use nivel peh and are unaware or don't understand the terrible effect it has.
Thank you AJN WATCH
B'H
ReplyDeleteI am very sure that my post AJN Watch did not vilify or personally attack anyone. It was purely in support of Menachem V who I feel personally (hope that is allowed) has been given a shocking deal. Put yourself in his position and you might think differently.
I am glad that Menachem V is standing up for himself and whether he wears a kipa or tzitzit or is in a bathing suit is of no consequence. The issue is bullying and public denigration of a man who was going about his business, not hurting anyone and he did not receive justice.
There was a 17 yo (not Jewish by the way, so you can see I do have concerns for all people, not just Orthodox observant Jews) kid who lost his life tragically a few days ago.
I think you @ AJN ought to grow up and look at the issues at hand.
There is too much violence in society and it should be condemned. How much more so if it is violence against a member of our Jewish community by a member of the police force.
If Menachem V chooses this venue to redress his issues so be it. Brumby is a public figure and I think can handle it. How dare you think you speak for ALL the Jewish community or even a majority of the community!
Two Jews are blindfolded and are up against a wall about to be shot by the Nazis. One of them screams out, "Death to Hitler! The Nazis will be defeated!" to which the other blindfolded Jew responded, "Leibel, shhhh, quiet, you'll cause trouble."
ReplyDeleteSome people have the ghetto mentality that it's best to go quietly into the night hoping bad things will just go away. That's people like some of the posters here.
Then there are people with guts and spines in their backs, people like Menachem Vorsheimer. Agree with him or not, at least he is alive and kicking enough to take action and speak out for what he believes to be just. It's that kind of spirit that gave us proud moments in history like the Warsaw ghetto uprising and many other examples of Jews who find some pride and courage.
The only people who attack Mr. Vorsheimer for demanding accountability from Yeshiva Centre are those who are part of and gain from the unaccountable system and have a vested interest in the status quo. Otherwise, why wouldn't anyone want accountability from a large important Jewish organisation that collects mega dollars? Isn't it in everybody's interest that there be accountablity? Except of course, for those who will be out of pocket if accountability ever becomes a reality. Those people will fight tooth and nail to hold on to their turf, even if it means using slander and lies or other even dirtier underhanded tactics. Whenever one sees people fighting hard to cover up the truth it is usually because they are desperate to cover up their own misdeeds and/or ill gotten gains.
I doubt AJN watch will post this comment, but we'll see.
Yes nivul peh is widespread in our community (even amongst so-called and so-dressed chassidim).
ReplyDeleteThat itself is a terrible chilul Hashem and also badly influences our youngsters. V's blog - where he uses such disuting language against the premier - a true friend of our community - is despicable.
As to our leaders and teachers, maybe it is time that you spoke out strongly against the nivul peh spoken by so many adults and kids?
No doubt many don't even realise that their filthy language is quite nauseating and shocking and embarrasing when coming from a religious person.
Shoshana - looks like you were wrong and AJNWatch did publish your comment (unlike your blog where you censor opposition).
ReplyDeleteComparing the Vorchheimer business to the Nazis is shameful. Your mocking of the Holocaust and its victims is horrible and sickening.
Yes we all realise that you are happy for Menachem to continue the campaign that you had against the yeshiva. And while I have no view on who is right or wrong, the methods used are terrible. In the old days people harming or even attempting to harm Jewish public and private interests were dealt with very harshly - ny the community. These days this cannot be done, but remember we still have the same HKBH who will use His judgement against those who harm His people.
Have seichel - and become a true repenting Jewess
Without addressing anyone here personally or in particular, I'd like to post something quite important that I have heard from a number of people - including a famous rabbi and that is that while all the BT Kiruv groups - including Chabad, Aish, and the others do a marvelous job in bringing people tachas kanfei haShechina, there is one aspect - an important set of halachos - that these 'newbies' are not taught. (And this also refers to some FFBs who also have no idsea of this matter.) And that is the laws of the Issur of Mesirah.
ReplyDeleteOver the years we notice that many (not all - mind you) BTs, when facing a problem - especially with a Jewish organisation, will, as a first reaction, say: "I am going to report this to the police" or "I will complain to the govt department".
And many actually go ahead and do so. This has in the past created HUGE problems in our community including public embarrasment, massive costs and expenses - even in cases where said org had done nothing wrong in the first place.
Some BTs don't have the slightest hesitance to contact the media - be it the AJN or the others and report on 'scandals' in the community not caring how much they hurt individuals and/or the public. A few of the more public 'scandals' that hit the media in the past 2-3 years were all started in this way.
Besides the despicable aspect of being an ingrate - kafui tovah - to those who welcomed you into our midst (and even often to those who educate your kids for free or for a pittance) the aveireh of mesirah is one that it is almost impossible to do teshuva - after the massive Chilul Hashem and harm done.
These people really and truly have no idea that being a Moser is one of the worst aveiros that a yid can do. (Anyone reading this who has any doubts of its veracity, please ask your rabbi or teacher to study with you the relevant section sin Choshen Mishpat. You will be shocked.)
I have heard from people involved in the running of our shuls and schools how they are regularly threatened with being dobbed in to the authorities.
In truth it isn't the BT's fault that he/she was never educated about this aspect of halacha. The Kiruv workers should take this matter into serious consideration and maybe the community will have less such problems.
Ex friend, your reading comprehension must be on a third grade level if you think I was making a comparison to the Nazis. Obviously, you missed the point of the joke.
ReplyDeleteDemanding accountability and transparency can only be GOOD for the community. In no way can such a demand be misconstrued as a 'campaign against Yeshiva'. It is rather a search for the truth
Menachem Vorsheimer's methods are honest and above board. He has bothered to find out the facts and information that are publicly accessible to everyone and has informed us. I find his thoroughness in these matters to be quite impressive. He has not personally attacked anyone, nevertheless his questions remain unanswered. Mr. V is in turn villifed by the Vaad in their vain attempt to silence him and protect the vested interests and status quo. He is doing a service to the community by doing the hard yards and asking the right questions as to where all the hard earned Jewish money is going to. To say as you are saying, ex-friend, that he should not be doing so, is to assert a tacit acceptance of corruption.
Ironically ex-friend, your attitude actually highlights and illustrates the point of the joke as you are in essence saying the same thing the second blindfolded Jew said, 'Menachem, shhh, be quiet, you are causing trouble!" Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.
Dear AJN Watch and associated bloggers. I have been made aware of your article. Whilst you have a right to an opinion, a truly honest person would put their name to it. The language utilised and personal attacks are contrary to the halachas concerning rechilous and loshon hora, which I find amusing given your contention “time to pull your head in”. Surely if you were genuine, you would find a way to express your sentiments and thoughts in a manner consistent with Halacha (whilst stating your name), and without the hateful slander and loshon hora. If collectively you are not honest enough to put your name to something and abide by the same halacha you purport to uphold, then your actions are no more honourable than those of a thief. A blog of this nature is contrary to any halacha. AJN Watch pull your head in and stop being a faceless, nameless and hate filled hypocrite.
ReplyDeleteShoshana you completly miss the point - es[ecially refarding MV's attack of Brumby. The vast vast majority of the Jewish community are dismayed and disgusted with his blog. That is not the way we treat a friend
ReplyDeleteLooks like that blog of vorchheimer has been removed. At least I cannot get to it.
ReplyDeleteGood riddance.
Menachem, this blog is actually doing a HUGE mitzvah and service to klal yisroel by publicly dissociating the vast majority of our community from your ravings against the leader of the state government.
ReplyDeleteDoing so, hopefully removes some or all of the taint of chilul hashem that your blog caused.
B'H
ReplyDeleteWhen we as Jews can discuss this issue sanely and with respect, that will be the day, Moishiah comes. There is such a lack of respect here from some people re others. Maybe we should just stick to issues and try to argue rationally and respectfully. Peace and love of our fellows and no violence!
How disappointing that Menachem has been told to, "shhh, be quiet, you are causing trouble!"
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hereticpress.com/Editorials/Editorial10.html
I shall continue with his good work exposing the corruption of the Victorian democracy. Good governance in Victoria relies on the Westminster democratic system with a separation of powers between the lawmakers, the courts and police. Former Premier Bracks made secret deals with police and Robert Hulls appoints his own judges. Perhaps that is not how things operate in Israel but the Australian democracy has foundation stones to prevent the tyranny of governments from having control over the courts and police. Shame on AJN and the Jewish community for not supporting someone who is trying to expose the corruption in Victoria. Blind Freddie can see the system is being degraded by Premier Brumby.
Tim Anderson
http://www.hereticpress.com