Sunday, January 10, 2010

JCCV looking for problems?

Hasn't the JCCV learned from the past that pandering to the noisy - and miniscule - gay lobby is a recipe for another debacle?

Have they already forgotten the warnings of the late and lamented Rabbi Chaim Gutnick z”l about this matter?

Do they really again wish to alienate the rabbis, the orthodox Shuls and the traditional and even irreligious members of the Victoria Jewish community who are either totally opposed to giving this group of individuals a voice on the community’s official forum or are bored and disinterested with the bleating of a few troublemakers?

Reading the AJN article, the question that comes to mind is, how soon can we expect the JCCV to “establish a reference group to better understand” Jewish chazzir-fressers, Jewish Shabbos-violators, Jewish thieves and Jewish Hindus?

And isn’t this an opening for “Jews for Jesus”, who in the eyes of many, are no less worthy than practicing ‘proud’ homosexuals. (And then how far will we be before the JCCV looks into “Gay Jews for Jesus”…?)

John Searle should be VERY wary of trying to act “politically-correct” by engaging with such persons in the name of the JCCV.

We understand that they may need help with health and mental issues, suicide prevention, discrimination or any other matter.
Let them go to any of the dozens of organizations that have been established for homosexuals specifically for this purpose. After all, Jewish and non-Jewish homosexuals generally have the same problems and issues.  And should a specific “Jewish” matter arise, they can visit a rabbi in private and advice will surely be forthcoming.

We sincerely hope that Searle will come to his senses. Otherwise the other members of the executive should take steps to remove him from the presidency. It simply is not worth destroying the community’s main representative group for the sake of a few troubled people.

Searle should understand that the orthodox communities – together with those who do not believe that homosexuality is a specific Jewish problem – are by far the largest proportion of the Jewish population. It makes no sense to upset them needlessly.


  1. How specific does the problem need to be? There are jews who are gay, living with jews who are orthodox who think that homosexuality is an abmonation. It's not and nobody should have to live in fear and trepidation. Searle and his cohorts need to understand that it's the orthodox attitude that is out of step and needs to be address. It's the orthodox attitude that is detrimental to the mental health and well being of young people and it needs to stop. It's a pity you're more focussed on not upsetting the large proportion of jews than looking after those that actually need your help and understand. They would also be members of your community.

  2. John Searle should realize that " you can't be all things to all people"

  3. What's wrong with giving them a voice? Ignoring them isn't going to make them go away. When you have a homosexual in your own family you might understand the need for compassion instead of indignation and name calling. Shame on you.

  4. No 'mitzva' to ostracize gays

  5. "It simply is not worth destroying the community’s main representative group for the sake of a few troubled people."

    There's two things wrong with this comment.

    Firstly, even if one fellow Jew is troubled, isn't it incumbent to exercise Ahavas Yisrael?

    Secondly, why should the "community’s main representative group" be destroyed? Chabad, the most prominent orthodox grouping in Melbourne, reaches out to Jews who commit aveiras to show them the beauty of a Torah life. It doesn’t validate the aveira, but provides a Jewishly authentic alternative. As I understand it, the JCCV is not seeking to legitimate homosexuality as acceptable or on alternative way of life. On the contrary, it defers to the rabbonim on the questions. Rather the JCCV is trying to support GLBT Jews in the troubles they suffer for their aveira, without in any way condoning it.

    Most congregations in Melbourne would have their fair share of “Jewish chazzir-fressers, Jewish Shabbos-violators, [and] Jewish thieves” (though I have yet to meet a Jewish Hindu). Doesn’t Hashem want us to love such people, firstly for their Yiddishe neshoma and secondly in the hope that they may change their ways?

  6. Yes, gays have difficulties living in an often unfriendly environment. But so do disabled people, and all sorts of victims of circumstances or prejudice or both. And yet the JCCV does not have a "reference group" for Jewish disabled people.

    So the only significance of a meeting with the JCCV is to discuss the specifically Jewish aspects of the sitation of a gay Jewish people. As Bruce posts above, that means the Torah's prohibition on homosexual activity.

    Therefore the JCCV is now discussing "problems" in what the Torah says. Is this the role for an organisation which claims to embrace the orthodox community?

  7. Bruce says that homosexuality is not an abomination. The Torah says it is. Who has greater authority?

  8. What does refusing gays a seat in the JCCV have to do with Ahavas Yisroel?

    If they sinply sut up and stopped parading the streets like clowns maybe people would have a bit more sympathy for them.

  9. Anon writes:

    "Most congregations in Melbourne would have their fair share of “Jewish chazzir-fressers, Jewish Shabbos-violators, [and] Jewish thieves”..."

    True. But they would not welcome such people if they had parades and websites promoting such behaviour.

    And anyway, who is talking about congregations?
    We were discussing JCCV membership.

    The last time I checked they didn't have members who represented chazzir-fressers and thieves.


    Message to Bruce Llama and Anonymous. We have not published your most recent comments.

    (BTW could commenters use a name or a 'nom de plume' rather than 'anonymous'. There are so many of you out there that this causes confusion.)

    While we don't mind posting views which go against our stance, we will not allow comments which are offensive to the Torah or to Torah observers.

    Also, will not post links to sites whose raison 'd’ĂȘtre is to slander and besmirch orthodox Jewry.

  11. It seems more than a little hypocritical that you will not allow comments that are "offensive to the Torah or to Torah observers" yet you post material that is deeply offensive to homosexuals.

  12. My posting which you rejected was to point out that homosexuality and child abuse( these are two distinct issues just in case you may wish to link the two) are issues which your Torah observers must deal with. Burying your heads into talmud wont make the issues disappear.

  13. How come we haven't seen anything posted about the NSWKA v. Adass Kashrus story? What are yous cared of?

  14. Patience, comrade. Patience.

    We have actually received a number of emails about this affair and we shall be posting shortly.
    Meanwhile we invite everyone who has any 'inside' info on this to share it with us.


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